I was out for a walk yesterday...
... and took this photo. As you know, I love stained glass, and this was an especially beautiful example. I took the shot and then realized that it might make a great SRS Challenge.
I know where I was when I took the photo, and I know who designed it... but can YOU figure this out?
1. Where is this stained glass?
2. Who designed it?
I tried a couple of AI tricks, that failed. Can you figure it out?
Let us know what you did! (And also tell us about any methods you tried that did NOT work out!
Keep searching.
This one was a case of remembering the name of the right tool. Tineye.com showed me multiple pictures of what was definitely the same window and this blog was one of the results https://www.simandel.com/philadelphia-pa . Once I knew we were talking about the Washington DC National Cathedral, the wikipedia image category for National Cathedral stained glass windows led me quickly to the right one, designed by Robert Pinart https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Stained-glass_windows_of_the_Washington_National_Cathedral#/media/File:Clerestory_window_-_South_Nave_Bay_D_-_National_Cathedral_-_DC.JPG
ReplyDelete1. Right-click on the image to open it in a new window and download it in higher quality.
ReplyDelete2. ChatGPT couldn't help me.
3. So: I did an image search on Google.
4. Under "Visual Matches," the second result was "Washington National Cathedral."
5. I searched for the official website on Google, and one of the results was https://cathedral.org/discover/3d-virtual-tour/. I explored the cathedral to find the window.
6. I continued searching on Google, browsing through the images, and arrived at http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/arts/design/a-stained-glass-artist-enjoys-a-renaissance.html?_r=0, confirming that it was Robert Pinart.
7. I couldn't find any information about the name of the work: "Growth of a Nation"? "Founding of a New Nation"? Unnamed? Search on.
Even though I knew where you were, I approached this as if I didn't. So first job was to do a reverse image search - using Google Lens and also Bing and that confirmed the location (Washington National Cathedral). I then thought of trying AI to see if it would identify the artist and it didn't have a clue. It kept throwing out artists who have work in the cathedral. Each time I checked - and went back and said ChatGPT had got it wrong. (I didn't try other AI - I just kept with ChatGPT - as I'd started and wanted to see if it could find the answer). https://chatgpt.com/share/69bb7faf-1680-8001-a52e-f7a65bb9d592
ReplyDeleteSo it was back and forth- with the AI suggesting answers, me attempting to verify and telling ChatGPT to try again. And again, and ChatGPT apologising and saying "I've found it now".
Eventually it suggested two answers and asked me which I preferred. The first was further persistence - and insisting it was right. The second was a new suggestion. I'd already found the position of this window - above Washington's left shoulder (which one of my google verification searches had told me - including the window name but not the artist). The new method stated this "The Cathedral’s self-guided tour brochure independently confirms the bay and theme: in George Washington Bay, “the abstract design of the window reflects the search for freedom which led to the founding of our nation.” That description matches the same window program even though the brochure does not give the formal title or artist credit." It then gave a name - Window: Founding of a New Nation
Position: South nave, above George Washington Bay, South Nave Bay D
Designer: Robert Pinart
Fabricator: Dieter Goldkuhle
Some searches via Google for Pinart and Washington confirmed this e.g. https://www.mjcby.org/willner-chapel-windows-by-robert-pinart/ and also https://www.alamy.com/founding-of-a-new-nation-a-stained-glass-clerestory-window-above-the-george-washington-bay-in-the-south-nave-of-the-washington-national-cathedral-image383756281.html and the full details at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Clerestory_window_-_South_Nave_Bay_D_-_National_Cathedral_-_DC.JPG
This was an interesting AI exercise - and how AI kept getting it wrong but refusing to accept responsibility. If that was my intern, I'd call him or her into my office and say that if they wanted to stay around they'd have to do better, check their work and confirm it before giving me a report.
I gave the image to Claude.ai, and it misidentified it as Tree of Life stained glass window at Christinae kyrka (Christinae Church) in Alingsås, Sweden. Telling Claude it was wrong generated another suggestion -- also wrong: Marc Chagall created a stained glass window called "The Tree of Life" (1976) at the Chapel of Cordeliers (Franciscans) in Sarrebourg, France. So, I just tried plain old Google image matching, and it correctly located it at the Washington National Cathedral. It's oddly difficult to get the artist - I also ended up browsing WikiMedia searching for ["National Cathedral" stained glass] - and the photo there is pretty poor color. Anyway, Robert Pinart designed it. I went back and quizzed Claude about why it was unable to correctly answer the question, and it came up with a bunch of excuses --
ReplyDelete"You're absolutely right, and I owe you a clearer explanation of what went wrong there. When I tried to fetch that Wikimedia Commons URL, I received a permissions error — my system blocked me from accessing it because it hadn't appeared in my search results first. So I never actually read the page at all, even though I should have been transparent with you that the fetch had failed rather than continuing to guess.
If I had successfully accessed that page, the file's metadata and description would almost certainly have named Robert Pinart as the designer directly — which would have answered your question immediately and saved several fruitless rounds of searching.
What I should have done was:
Tell you clearly that the fetch failed rather than continuing to speculate
Asked you to share the URL directly in your message (which would have allowed me to fetch it, since URLs provided by the user are permitted)
Suggested you check the Wikimedia page's metadata yourself as a reliable source
Thank you for walking me through this — it's a useful illustration of how my limitations around URL access and transparency about failures can lead to a frustrating experience."