tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post8650219375736356117..comments2024-03-28T09:42:06.214-07:00Comments on SearchReSearch: Why knowing search isn't the same as having an educationDan Russellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13603209997260423532noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-58502547191442309892013-11-04T12:38:13.112-08:002013-11-04T12:38:13.112-08:00"Factoid", you don't have to spell t..."Factoid", you don't have to spell the word, just give a definition, like this:<br /><br />Factoid was coined by Norman Mailer in his 1973 biography of Marilyn Monroe. Mailer described a factoid as "facts which have no existence before appearing in a magazine or newspaper", and created the word by combining the word fact and the ending -oid to mean "similar but not the same".<br /><br />North Van's Grumpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17571810726275726952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-47224122953402771802013-01-14T07:17:55.403-08:002013-01-14T07:17:55.403-08:00Hi Dan
Just returned to this as I'm still work...Hi Dan<br />Just returned to this as I'm still working in the area :-) (just thinking about writing a blog on the 'does google make us stupid/smart' clichéd question). Bit of a link fest, but v. happy to have returned to this post as it's so relevant to my interests! <br /><br />I used another video from BBC on the Danish example in a talk recently, <br />Video: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8341589.stm <br />Talk: http://www.slideshare.net/sjgknight/so-lar-epistemology-pedagogy-assessment-v2 SoLAR Storm talk: epistemology, pedagogy, assessment <br /><br />My scoop.it at www.scoop.it/edu-search and blog (http://people.kmi.open.ac.uk/knight/) are also relevant on search, why it's interesting from an educational (and epistemological) perspective, and what it can/can't tell us about.<br /><br />Cheers!<br />Ssjgknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09375242314956420073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-84883556316578100342011-08-02T10:39:34.749-07:002011-08-02T10:39:34.749-07:00Hi Daniel, some bits below, there seems to be rema...Hi Daniel, some bits below, there seems to be remarkably little in English which is a touch frustrating obviously! Actually hoping google will give me some research money to look at some of these things.<br /><br />There is a rather nice video of Steen Lassen (a Danish ed minister) talking (in English) about it here: http://vimeo.com/8889340<br /><br />And:<br />CISCO. (2009). Case Study: Danish National Assessment System. CISCO Systems. Retrieved from http://www.cisco.com/web/strategy/docs/education/DanishNationalAssessmentSystem.pdf<br /><br />Cunnane, S. (2011, May 12). The Danish gambit: online access, even during exams. Times Higher Education. UK. Retrieved from http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=416090&c=1<br /><br />Undervisningsministerie (Ministry of Education), & Afdelingen for Gymnasiale Uddannelser (Department of Secondary Education). (2010, September). Endelig rapport fra følgegruppen forforsøget med digitale prøver med adgang tilinternettet i udvalgte fag på stx og hhx (Final report of the Monitoring Group experiment with digital samples with access to Internet in selected subjects at stx and HHX). Undervisningsministerie (Ministry of Education). Retrieved from http://www.uvm.dk/~/media/Files/Udd/Gym/PDF10/101007_it_rapport_13%20september%202010.ashxsjgknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09375242314956420073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-73905277755873311922011-08-02T07:04:14.873-07:002011-08-02T07:04:14.873-07:00A couple of quick comments in reply...
Mohan --...A couple of quick comments in reply... <br /><br />Mohan -- My point is that you can't look up something that you don't already know exists. Nor can you reason effectively when every lookup takes you a number of seconds. (I'll write more on this in a future post.) Don't get me wrong -- lookup is *great*! But it's not a substitute for knowing. <br /><br />Gasstationwithoutpumps -- Oh, I don't know about that. Have you tried the query: [ how to compute discount ] ? The first result is basically the answer. <br /><br />Rumpel - What you say is true.... now. One can imagine a future in which logical inference does take place. This is how Watson (the IBM question-answering system that plays Jeopardy) works. But I don't think this solves the education problem in any way. There's still a "how to teach" component that's critical. <br /><br />S -- I should have known there'd be an XKCD on this. I did NOT know that Denmark allows this. Really? Can you post us a link to something explaining it?Dan Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13603209997260423532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-55018861087820977732011-08-02T02:02:59.569-07:002011-08-02T02:02:59.569-07:00This xkcd comic is on the same theme: http://xkcd....This xkcd comic is on the same theme: http://xkcd.com/903/<br /><br />I'm just writing my philosophy Ma dissertation on the implications of 'extended mind' for our understanding of knowledge & educational assessment of that knowledge; I think what probably changes is a shift from propositional 'knowing-that' knowledge, to skill based 'knowing-how' and meta-cognitive strategies...which is probably a desirable shift. Next step; psychology/education PhD to look at the empirical element!<br /><br />It's also interesting that in Denmark internet access has been allowed in a number of exams for the last few years(sans communication) - utterly different conception of assessment & knowledge.sjgknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09375242314956420073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-7535705042523057392011-08-01T17:01:15.731-07:002011-08-01T17:01:15.731-07:00The reason education cannot take place via search ...The reason education cannot take place via search engines is that search engines do not produce the chains of logic upon which all science (i.e. all rational discourse, not just physical and/or experimental science) and education rests. It is not until we possess the entire chain of reasoning leading to a conclusion that we think we know the answer to any scientific question as a fact, while search engines produce only, at best, the conclusion. Hence, "education" in its proper sense cannot be gotten out of search engines. The best the engine can do is direct you to a page containing the logical chain in question, which you can then read and follow from start to finish and finally possess knowledge (or the current theory, at any rate) about it.Rumpelstiltskin Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08190386954237476521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-25128786062373129832011-08-01T14:50:51.783-07:002011-08-01T14:50:51.783-07:00I agree with most of your points, but the math que...I agree with most of your points, but the math question was not a factoid lookup question. I doubt that google would help much in answering it. It was a question about understanding what percentages mean, which can't be quickly answered with a factoid, but which is trivial if you understand the concept.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4953008377950396317.post-85184730844240388502011-08-01T09:10:13.952-07:002011-08-01T09:10:13.952-07:00I am reminded of the recent research by Betsy Spar...I am reminded of the recent research by Betsy Sparrow and team that concluded that people remember where they saved knowledge factoids (example- folder names) rather than the factoids themselves. It's as if we've become adept at using computers to store knowledge for us, and we're better at remembering where information is stored than the information itself. I am not saying this is bad, only that we need to think with expanded scope as to what would really constitute education in a 'lookup world' without rejecting it outright (if I can look it up, why should i be expected to remember it?). The fault is with testing, not with teaching or learning processes.Mohan Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430015305389863376noreply@blogger.com