I'm traveling (again) this week, working in a city with a majestic river, one storied in song and legend, and occupied for at least 2,000 years. And this prompts me to ask a very specific kind of Challenge.
I'd been reading about the megafauna of the last Ice Age, and was surprised to find that bones of the straight-tusked elephant had been found not far from where I'm at. They were discovered while doing some construction on a large square near Charing Cross.
This square is VERY well-known, and had for many years featured a statue that was set in the center of the square, sited between two fountains, but the later removed. It was still shown on maps of the region in 1893, however, and that's enough of a clue for you to figure out:
1. Whose statue am I describing?
2. What square was it originally located in?
3. Where is that statue now? (Can you find a picture of it?)
Please let us know HOW you found the answer to this week's challenge, and if you used any specific content to discover it.
A separate question: What kinds of collections of content do you find most valuable to use in your own search challenges If enough people reply, I'll collate the answers together and let you know what we think! Personally, I find collections of maps to be incredibly useful.
But what collections of content do YOU like to use?
Search on!
I'd been reading about the megafauna of the last Ice Age, and was surprised to find that bones of the straight-tusked elephant had been found not far from where I'm at. They were discovered while doing some construction on a large square near Charing Cross.
 |
| Diorama of the straight-tusked elephant. From Wikimedia, created by Apotea. |
1. Whose statue am I describing?
2. What square was it originally located in?
3. Where is that statue now? (Can you find a picture of it?)
Please let us know HOW you found the answer to this week's challenge, and if you used any specific content to discover it.
A separate question: What kinds of collections of content do you find most valuable to use in your own search challenges If enough people reply, I'll collate the answers together and let you know what we think! Personally, I find collections of maps to be incredibly useful.
But what collections of content do YOU like to use?
Search on!
1: General Charles George Gordon (by Hamo Thornycroft)
ReplyDelete2: Trafalgar Square in London
3: Statue is now located on the Victoria Embankment, London
Google maps: large square near Charing Cross (in London; a city with a majestic river Thames): Trafalgar Square
On Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar_Square) I found information on the straight-tusked elephant and the removed statue of General Charles George Gordon. It was removed in 1943 and re-sited on the Victoria Embankment ten years later. The Wikipedia article on Charles George Gordon shows the statue on the Victoria Embankment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_George_Gordon#mediaviewer/File:General_Gordon_statue,_Embankment,_London.jpg).
The Gordon statue on Trafalgar square: http://www.heritage-history.com/books/cambridge/primary/zpage229.gif
Old map: http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?txtXCoord=530000&txtYCoord=180440
I began by searching for [ straight-tusked elephant ]. The Wikipedia article mentioned locations of findings, but no mention that I could pin to near Charing Cross with my limited knowledge of London. Tried variations of searches for things like [ "Palaeoloxodon antiquus" london square construction ] switching in a word like renovation, but again having no luck.
ReplyDeleteTook a step back and re-read the challenge. Changed strategy.
Searched [ fountains of london ] and saw Trafalgar Square in the SERP. I found the answers in the other statues in the Trafalgar Square.
1. Charles George Gordon
2. According to the link above "In 1888 a statue of Gordon by Hamo Thornycroft was erected in Trafalgar Square, London, exactly halfway between the two fountains."
3. Again from the link above, "...in 1953 the statue minus a large slice of its pedestal was reinstalled on the Victoria Embankment, in front of the newly built Ministry of Defence." Ima e of General Gordon Statue, Victoria Embankment
For your separate question - the first one that comes to mind is IMDB.com.
enjoy the bangers… pip, pip, Old bean…
ReplyDeletethe full Monty — er, Chinese Gordon, Gordon Pasha, and Gordon of Khartoum - down under…
with full pedestal
by
Hamo
Spy
the UK current location -
along the T
square was site of
SBS
not to be confused with Derry SBS…
u2
fwiw - on the side topic… if interested… Ebbsfleet River?
Deletequagga, interesting work, check ⌂page
Megafauna @ Oxford, 2014
Conference
blog
slides & audio
Yadvinder Malhi, Professor of Ecosystem Science, University of Oxford
Gordon had a curious sense of geography… clearly, all pre Google Maps/Earth… but the details are illuminating…
Deletewonder if he could be heard out these days in Trafalgar?
from Wikipedia:
"He was an ardent Christian cosmologist who believed, amongst other things, that the Earth was enclosed in a hollow sphere with God's throne directly above the altar of the Temple in Jerusalem, the Devil inhabiting the opposite point of the globe near Pitcairn Island in the Pacific.[citation needed] He also believed that the Garden of Eden was on the island of Praslin in the Seychelles."
Pitcairn, looks like Dan's kinda place… so does Praslin, hmmm
sharks & rock climbing
all seems disturbingly/reassuringly familiar, Mahdi and all…
General Gordon's Last Stand
Gordon was apparently killed about an hour before dawn, at the Governor-General's palace. As recounted in Bernard M. Allen’s article "How Khartoum Fell" (1941), the Mahdi had given strict orders to his three Khalifas not to kill Gordon. However, the orders were not obeyed. Gordon died on the steps of a stairway in the northwestern corner of the palace, where he and his personal bodyguard, Agha Khalil Orphali, had been firing at the enemy. Orphali was knocked unconscious and did not see Gordon die. When he woke up again that afternoon, he found Gordon's body covered with flies and the head cut off.[14] A merchant, Bordeini Bey, glimpsed Gordon standing on the palace steps in a white uniform looking into the darkness. Reference is made to an 1889 account of the General surrendering his sword to a senior Mahdist officer, then being struck and subsequently speared in the side as he rolled down the staircase.[15] When Gordon's head was unwrapped at the Mahdi's feet, he ordered the head transfixed between the branches of a tree "…where all who passed it could look in disdain, children could throw stones at it and the hawks of the desert could sweep and circle above."[citation needed] His body was desecrated and thrown down a well.[16] After the reconquest of the Sudan, in 1898, several attempts were made to locate Gordon's remains, but in vain.
In the hours following Gordon's death an estimated 10,000 civilians and members of the garrison were killed in Khartoum.[16] The massacre was finally halted by orders of the Mahdi.
Gordon believed in reincarnation. In 1877, he wrote in a letter: "This life is only one of a series of lives which our incarnated part has lived. I have little doubt of our having pre-existed; and that also in the time of our pre-existence we were actively employed. So, therefore, I believe in our active employment in a future life, and I like the thought.""
Good day, Dr. Russell, fellow SearchResearchers
ReplyDeleteSearched:
[define charing cross]
[elephant Statue Trafalgar Square] [elephant bones Trafalgar]
Old Bones find at Trafalgar Square News article 1957
Ice Age Safari BBC Video
[ statue Trafalgar Square intext:1893]
[statues in Trafalgar Square]
Trafalgar Square Here Ctrl-F Statues to find the one that we are looking for.
[General Charles George Gordon statue]
Charles George Gordon. Wikipedia Article
[General Charles George Gordon Trafalgar ]
Memorials to the General. Document a
[Victoria Embankment Charles Gordon Statue] in Google images. Search tools, custom range.
Link text
Answers
1. Whose statue am I describing?
A: The one of General Charles George Gordon by Hamo Thornycroft.
From source a: " The committee overseeing the memorial had initially considered a hospital in Port Said, Egypt. This was abandoned in favour of a statue."
2. What square was it originally located in?
A. Trafalgar Square, London.
3. Where is that statue now? (Can you find a picture of it?)
A:Victoria Embankment.
General Charles Gordon Statue (Gordon of Khartoum) - Victoria Embankment Gardens. Image by Oldpicruss from February 13,2014
What kinds of collections of content do you find most valuable to use in your own search challenges?
A: Maps, too.
Enjoy your trip, Dr. Russell.
I originally thought I was looking for an elephant statue and I did the search “straight-tusked elephant statue Charing Cross fountains” but still found the wikipedia page on Trafalgar Square http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar_Square#Fountains . After rereading, I realized that I was not looking for elephants, but the page mentions that “....The other, of General Charles George Gordon by Hamo Thornycroft, was erected on an 18-foot high pedestal between the two fountains in 1888. It was removed in 1943 and re-sited on the Victoria Embankment ten years later”
ReplyDeletea search for “General Charles George Gordon by Hamo Thornycroft,” brought back the following page that includes a photo of the statue on the Victoria Embankment: http://www.victorianweb.org/sculpture/thornycroft/21.html
As far as collections of content, my favorite to dig through is probably old maps! (but it depends on what I’m looking for). I especially like the David Rumsey Collection which lets you zoom. I also really like Google books for historical information.
current vanishing megafauna - a great tusker… wth, hominoids?
ReplyDeleteSatao
image collections, static or motion, social posts, aggregators - interface is key
examples, often leads to other info not readily found and/or accessible with regular search…imho:
Deletequagga/flickr
quagga/instagram
quagga/twitter
quagga/tumblr
1. Whose statue am I describing? General Charles George Gordon (Gordon of Khartoum)
ReplyDelete2. What square was it originally located in? Trafalgar Square
3. Where is that statue now? (Can you find a picture of it?) Victoria Embankment Gardens, London, England
Steps
-Google Maps [charing cross] to London’s Trafalgar Square > Street View > confirmed two fountains in the square>Wikipedia
-Query [trafalgar square timeline] http://goo.gl/KCgDYJ Image 1893 of Trafalgar Square
-Query - [maps london 1893] http://goo.gl/5tvwFR Google Maps Gallery (Overlay) [London - OS Town Plan 1893-6 “This is the most detailed and extensive survey of London by Ordnance Survey from a century ago.” Shows “Gordon Statue”
-Wikipedia General Charles George Gordon
“In 1888 a statue of Gordon by Hamo Thornycroft was erected in Trafalgar Square, London, exactly halfway between the two fountains. It was removed in 1943. In a House of Commons speech on 5 May 1948, then opposition leader Winston Churchill spoke out in favor of the statue's return to its original location...reinstalled on the Victoria Embankment, in front of the newly built Ministry of Defence.”
-Query [General Gordon Statue London "victoria embankment"]
Waymarking site for exact location & current image http://goo.gl/c3SaJg
Located at 51° 30.276 W 000° 07.420
Nicely done, Rosemary. (See my answer today.) This is basically what I did.
DeleteHere are the categories I have amassed in doing searches (alphabetical)
ReplyDeleteArchives & History Sites
Books
Data Banks
General (eg Wikipedia, Google translate input language)
Images
Library Sources
Map Sources & Tools
News and Newspapers
Resources used for previous challenges
Search Operators
Sources (eg Infomine)
There were several flavours of Gordon statuary and so not to be confused
ReplyDelete1. Just a Search in British History online for [Trafalgar Square] produces
General Charles Gordon
British History online [one of my fave sites] has this
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=68408
In the centre of the Square between the fountains, on a granite pedestal, is a bronze statue erected to the memory of General Charles Gordon, C.B.E., killed at Khartoum on 26th January, 1885. The statue depicts Gordon in military uniform but bareheaded, in a meditative mood holding his chin in his right hand. His left hand holds the Bible and under his left arm is his cane. His left foot is slightly raised and rests on a damaged mortar. On each side of the pedestal is a bronze panel representing "Faith and Fortitude" and "Charity and Justice," respectively. The total height of the memorial is 30 feet. It was unveiled on 16th October, 1888. The sculptor was Hamo Thornycroft assisted by Alfred Waterhouse.
2. [general charles gordon memorial history]
It was originally in Trafalgar Square. Unveiled 16 October 1888. In 1943 it was removed to Lord Roseberry's country House Mentmore. The Square was used for rallies in 1943 and so the now unpopular Gordon statue was removed to make room for the Wings for Victory rallies. It stayed in storage and never went back to Trafalgar.
...a solution was finally achieved, when the decision was made to construct a garden between the new
Whitehall building and the Embankment proper. 1953. (where the memorial now stands albeit a little shorter)
Gordon's Ghosts: British Major-General Charles
George Gordon and His Legacies, 1885-1960 200+ pages about the man and his statues
http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2777&context=etd
3. [Gordon Memorial]
http://www.victorianweb.org/sculpture/thornycroft/21.html
The memorial, now resited on the Victoria Embankment, London. The article is very detailed and has 2 fine images of the memorial.
and http://www.heritage-history.com/books/cambridge/primary/zpage229.gif shows it in place Trafalgar
One more little to my previous.
ReplyDeleteI knew exactly where you were having been there myself many times.
Did you know that there were more than 4 pussycats cast for the base of Nelson's column. Some years ago a lady showed up on Antiques Roadshow UK with a flatbed lorry with 3 more of the cats onboard. Many tons of bronze. One would look just grand in my backyard.
jon tU
SOURCES: I like Mapco and Rumsey for maps. British History online for, well, just that.
I found some remarkable British Pathé Cinemagazines covering General Gordon’s statue on Trafalgar Square.
ReplyDeleteVarious shots of the statue of General Gordon and Trafalgar Square on Coronation Day 1937
Video: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/trafalgar-square-issue-title-is-england-expects
View as stills: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/trafalgar-square-issue-title-is-england-expects
Another nice Pathe movie from 1933: "London. Centenary of 'The Christian General'. What better can be said than the words on his Memorial ... 'He saved an Empire by his warlike genius; he ruled vast provinces with justice, wisdom and power; and he died in the heroic attempt to save men, women and children from imminent and deadly peril.'" CU engraving on memorial - Charles G Gordon - Major-Gen Royal Engineers - Killed At Khartoum. Pan down statue of General Gordon.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/centenary-of-the-christian-general/
There is another less known statue of General Gordon which shows Gordon riding on a camel wearing a fez: http://goo.gl/X8866Y
ReplyDeleteThe Corps of Royal Engineers, Gordon's own Corps, commissioned a statue of Gordon on a camel. It was exhibited at the Royal Academy in 1890 and then erected in Brompton Barracks, Chatham, the home of the Royal School of Military Engineering, where it still stands. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_George_Gordon).
A history of General Gordons statue on a camel: http://lightwater.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/a-history-of-general-gordons-statue-at-gordons-school-mar2011.pdf
A British Pathé Cinemagazine covering the Royal Engineer's Headquarters at Chatham, Kent from 1936 showing various shots of a statue - it is of General Gordon on horseback "hero of Khartun, he was once a Sapper in the R.E.s".
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/royal-engineers-band-issue-title-is-children-first
Nice finds, Hans.
DeleteQuestion: Did you konw about the Pathé collection ahead of time, or did you find it somehow? (And if so, what did you search for to find it?)
Dan, I never found/used the Pathé collection before. I found a link to this site by searching Google [trafalgar square history general gordon]. On the British Pathé site there is a nice search inteface with a time slider.
DeleteI found some other remarkable British Pathé Cinemagazines covering General Gordon’s statue.
DeleteVarious shots of statue of General Gordon and Trafalgar Square on Coronation Day 1937
Video: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/trafalgar-square-issue-title-is-england-expects
View as stills: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/trafalgar-square-issue-title-is-england-expects
Another nice Pathe movie from 1933: "London. Centenary of 'The Christian General'. What better can be said than the words on his Memorial ... 'He saved an Empire by his warlike genius; he ruled vast provinces with justice, wisdom and power; and he died in the heroic attempt to save men, women and children from imminent and deadly peril.'" CU engraving on memorial - Charles G Gordon - Major-Gen Royal Engineers - Killed At Khartoum. Pan down statue of General Gordon.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/centenary-of-the-christian-general/
These Pathé videos are really excellent. What a great find!
DeleteHi
ReplyDeleteSo being from the UK and having lived in London I knew from the clues that the very well known square near charring cross is Trafalgar square. I then searched for London maps 1893 and came to a site I've used before to look at the old maps of where I live now the National Library of Scotland (http://www.nls.uk/) which has a huge archive of UK ordnance survey maps. I found the ones for London (handily overlaid on a google map http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=11&lat=51.48&lon=-0.12&layers=B000000TFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTFFFFFFFF) and viewed the map of Trafalgar Square published in 1895 and found the Gordon statue between the 2 fountains. A quick wikipedia search of the Gordon statue revealed it was Major-General Charles George Gordon and that the statue is now on the Victoria embankment outside the Ministry of Defence.
So in summary:
1. Major-General Charles George Gordon
2. Trafalgar Square
3. Victoria embankment outside the Ministry of Defence and here's a picture (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1629555)
John - And that last image (GeoGraph) has the lat/long in it, so you know exactly where the statue is located. Nice work.
DeleteJohn I didn't know geograph.org for Britain & Ireland existed. I checked out a site Grid Reference H2543 for personal interest. I would run this area every morning when I was last visiting family. Also because I saw the site uses Grid Reference I checked to see if I could find a website to convert back to Long Lat/UTM & found http://goo.gl/WAFJMe. Grid Reference is often used in hiking guides so nice to have this site rather than do the manual conversion which was what I used to have to do (it's easy but this is faster).So your reference was helpful for personal use as well. Thanks.
DeleteCollections of content: I like olde newspapers: I use England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Netherlands sites
ReplyDeleteThis is second try to post First time I hit Preview which has always worked but this time everything vanished same as hitting Publish
Here goes...
jon tU